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Portland PD incident involving Glocks
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Portland PD should go with the .45 G.A.P. The officers could then still have their .45's and the gap is a heck of a lot tougher than the .45ACP. The strength of the .45 GAP brass provides a large safety zone for ammo or firearms that may be out of spec.
Just in case you might ask why I believe such a novice thing, let me answer. Myself and several other reloaders have been testing the .45 GAP for eight months now, and we still can't seem to get the critter to blow. One person was successful enough to create such a hot load that the case did bulge and created a healthy smilie -- this was no doubt far beyond the brass spec of 23,000 psi. I mean, what would you expect by pushing a 200 grain bullet at 1119 fps, when the factory standard is 950 fps!!!
I've noticed with my reloads, from light to heavy, that I can still easily pop the fired brass all the way into the chamber (even before resizing it for reuse). Try doing that with full-power .40 ammo.
Average case expansion on full power loads is generally .477; some loads have expanded to .478. As a reference, brand new factory ammo usually has a brass diameter of aprox .470 - .471.
Not completely scientific methods I know, but the gap brass does have me in awe, and really does create a safety buffer to handle out of spec issues -- IMHO. And yes, I do realize that the exposed brass in the 6 o'clock chamber opening area is basically the same with the .45 ACP and the .45 GAP.
Here's my most recent load work ups from scratch, using VV N320, a fast burning powder:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/rel.45gap.N320.htm
If anybody gets a hold of facts (not opinions) of a flaw in the GAP design, please let me know.
You don't like unsupported barrels. Try the new .45 GAP in the Springfield XD format.
Just in case you might ask why I believe such a novice thing, let me answer. Myself and several other reloaders have been testing the .45 GAP for eight months now, and we still can't seem to get the critter to blow. One person was successful enough to create such a hot load that the case did bulge and created a healthy smilie -- this was no doubt far beyond the brass spec of 23,000 psi. I mean, what would you expect by pushing a 200 grain bullet at 1119 fps, when the factory standard is 950 fps!!!
I've noticed with my reloads, from light to heavy, that I can still easily pop the fired brass all the way into the chamber (even before resizing it for reuse). Try doing that with full-power .40 ammo.
Average case expansion on full power loads is generally .477; some loads have expanded to .478. As a reference, brand new factory ammo usually has a brass diameter of aprox .470 - .471.
Not completely scientific methods I know, but the gap brass does have me in awe, and really does create a safety buffer to handle out of spec issues -- IMHO. And yes, I do realize that the exposed brass in the 6 o'clock chamber opening area is basically the same with the .45 ACP and the .45 GAP.
Here's my most recent load work ups from scratch, using VV N320, a fast burning powder:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/petej/rel.45gap.N320.htm
If anybody gets a hold of facts (not opinions) of a flaw in the GAP design, please let me know.
You don't like unsupported barrels. Try the new .45 GAP in the Springfield XD format.
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6,935 Posts
O, boy!
I knew it was going to come to this! No opportunity for Peter Jordan to hump his "Cartridge de Decade" will go wanting!
Last time out it was the 357 SIG, now it's the .45 G.A.P.
I knew it was going to come to this! No opportunity for Peter Jordan to hump his "Cartridge de Decade" will go wanting!
Last time out it was the 357 SIG, now it's the .45 G.A.P.
Re: O, boy!
Yes. As a hobbyist, I'm often partial to the new stuff. I was ridiculed when I picked up the frist prototype G27 357 SIG barrel. Now it's happening all over again with the gap. I do enjoy making those big holes in the paper though. Besides, what other caliber has an entire chain of dedicated stores selling memorable paraphernalia -- The Gap. :wink:DeanSpeir said:
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TGZ gets letters…
…and this one's a beaut!
It is also said to be the ISP of choice for teenyboppers, mutants and child-molesters.
…and this one's a beaut!
- I don't make this stuff up![/*:16laudah]
- How do some of these people get guns?[/*:16laudah]
To which might be added that among "'Net cognoscenti," AOL is viewed as the home of the brain-dead, semi-computer illiterate masses who are unable on their own to operate a separate news reader or configure their E-mail client software.
It is also said to be the ISP of choice for teenyboppers, mutants and child-molesters.
Heck, I'll buy the G21 from him!
Lord, this Glock stuff is fun! I have never taken the opportunity to pi$$ in the kool-aid vis a vis Glocks until now. Just linking TGZ's Glock pages to another forum and commenting on the issues involved was enough to turn on the tap of "LALALA GLOCKS NEVER BLOW UP! LALALA 20K LEAD RELOADS THRU MY G22 WITHOUT A PROBLEM! LALALA IT'S AN URBAN LEGEND!"
Mebbe this time Glock will "upgrade" the barrels on their new guns and make the whole blessed issue just GO AWAY. I have seen the Portland G21 story on a couple online news pages already. The negative press can't be comfortable for them.
Lord, this Glock stuff is fun! I have never taken the opportunity to pi$$ in the kool-aid vis a vis Glocks until now. Just linking TGZ's Glock pages to another forum and commenting on the issues involved was enough to turn on the tap of "LALALA GLOCKS NEVER BLOW UP! LALALA 20K LEAD RELOADS THRU MY G22 WITHOUT A PROBLEM! LALALA IT'S AN URBAN LEGEND!"
Mebbe this time Glock will "upgrade" the barrels on their new guns and make the whole blessed issue just GO AWAY. I have seen the Portland G21 story on a couple online news pages already. The negative press can't be comfortable for them.
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Yes, I've been tracking your progress around THR and the Kool Aid Pond with considerable interest you vicious li'l agent provocateur… you enjoy pulling wings off of gadflys, doncha?!
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3,940 Posts
The mere mention of the name, let alone the dropping of a TGZ link on a g-rated site is guaranteed to generate some entertainment. Just the thing for a slow winter evening :twisted:
Honestly it started with the best of intentions. Some of those folks just get so touchy. Then they start throwing accusations around like Mardi Gras beads. It just got out of hand.
I did manage to refrain from recommending that new improved Glock...the XD. :twisted:
I did manage to refrain from recommending that new improved Glock...the XD. :twisted:
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6,935 Posts
This will come as no surprise to the Glock-o-philes, but this time it was the ammo, stupid!
Portland Police Bureau is very much a low-rent outfit for not having had the "class" to put out a corrective teletype when they found out that the ball came to rest in Federal's court… and now I'm wondering how the resolution to the Montgomery County Sheriff's kB! under similar conditions last month will play out!?!
Maybe Federal should take a note from Remington in these matters.
I'd think it'd be much safer to err on the side of complete dud rounds than it would be to have weak brass.
Warning: firing Remington ammo through your new G37 may cause you to hear a "CLICK" instead of something much louder. The second time it happens within the same 250 rounds, you'll swear off Remington ammo again. At least you will if you're me.
The primers on both were struck VERY well, and while I haven't disected those rounds, my bet is on primer sans anvil!
I'd think it'd be much safer to err on the side of complete dud rounds than it would be to have weak brass.
Warning: firing Remington ammo through your new G37 may cause you to hear a "CLICK" instead of something much louder. The second time it happens within the same 250 rounds, you'll swear off Remington ammo again. At least you will if you're me.
The primers on both were struck VERY well, and while I haven't disected those rounds, my bet is on primer sans anvil!
Just a question. If Federal is producing ammunition in various calibers that resulted in case failures, why haven't other departments, with different firearms, suffered the same phenomena?
There are any number of federal, state, and local departments out there with Berettas, Sigs, S&W, Ruger, Springfiled, Kimber, and heavens knows what else chambered in .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. Some of them, at least, are using Federal Practice Ammo.
I'd be interested in a reason beyond the Kool-Aid Pool's capabilities. You know, one that makes sense.
There are any number of federal, state, and local departments out there with Berettas, Sigs, S&W, Ruger, Springfiled, Kimber, and heavens knows what else chambered in .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. Some of them, at least, are using Federal Practice Ammo.
I'd be interested in a reason beyond the Kool-Aid Pool's capabilities. You know, one that makes sense.
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We're not sure that Federal doesn't actually have a QC/QA problem, JR… note previous reference to the Montgomery County event.
Guess I need to make a couple of 'phone calls.
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Wow, Dean; those guys at Glock Talk really hate you.
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work.
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814 Posts
I'm jealous that they hate him. Me, they just banned my IP address.
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Golly, youn'un, that's surely a non-sequitur!Chubs said:
Some do, some don't… most have no idea who I am, and if they did, it wouldn't matter anyway.
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Oh, come on; Patrick agrees with me. Seriously, though, while I'll admit I was a bit hyperbolic, there, it's still quite funny to me that some of them regularly go out of the way to decry your website, when all you really do, there, is put up pictures and reports of self-disassembled Glocks, and offer the only logical explanation for the frequency with which they are seen. It's like the truth is painful for them.
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They snub me. I'm crushed. I think Dean is working from the old Sicilian proverb: "A man is known by his enemies." Given that, who'd want to be hated by any Kool aid drinkers? :lol:
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