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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This'll make them crazed on GT, but it has less to do with Glock than it does with the training doctrine in Quantico… hell, it kinda reinforces Glock's #1 excuse!

Several years ago the FBI's FTU was reorganized into two separate units: "Administrative" which is responsible for procurement of parts and ammunition as well as issuance of the firearms from the gun locker, and "Instruction" which handles doctrine and training.

The heads of each of those units, Administrative SAC Greg Capetta (a name not unknown to many) and Instruction SAC Dale Pruna, have recently been reassigned because of the unacceptably high rate of unintentional discharges with personal injury occurring with Glock pistols: too many SAs have been shooting themselves during… why are we not surprised?!?… reholstering with their fingers not yet clear of the trigger guard, and during presentation… because of fingers in the trigger guard before they sights were on the target.

Although I had two years ago learned that the Director's personal driver had experienced an ND w/PI (in the FTU locker room according to one source), I was not aware that this failure to observe the Glock dictum of "Off target, off trigger!" was such a wide-spread issue within the FBI, it got to the point that two SACs have lost their jobs.

While there is apparently no immediate move to remove any Glocks from service, none have been procured in quite some time… it will be interesting to see if any new ones are acquired during the next procurement cycle upcoming shortly.
 

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We at the NYPD range considered the Fuller Brushmen more dangerous than the BLA on their once a year whirlwind shootfest. It got quite crowded in that corner wearing a lampshade trying to just blend in and not be noticed! Only the senior instructors were allowed to take the day off.:cry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
JRWnTN said:
I wonder how many ND's involved agents who were trained in "trigger preping" the S&W 1076's?
When the FBI announced the adoption of the Glock as a duty sidearm, I went nuts!

"How in the ever-lovin' blue-eyed li'l world can Quantico reconcile the issuance of the Glock with the trigger-prepping system?!?" I asked my wire in Quantico, and was flabbergasted to discover that that particular doctrine had been discarded several years before!

Not a moment too soon to my way of thinking… and still a little late for S&W who was obliged to configure the Models 1076/NMS to accommodate that doctrine, did an inadequate job of it, and took a helluva hit because of that failure.

It was also, in my considered view, the last gasp for the commercial viability of the 10mm.

Charlie… thanks for the erratum; bad keystroke in the rush to post this as I was being dragged out the door.
 

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DeanSpeir said:
How in the ever-lovin' blue-eyed li'l world can Quantico reconcile the issuance of the Glock with the trigger-prepping system?!?"I asked my wire in Quantico, and was flabbergasted to discover that that particular doctrine had been discarded several years before!
Thanks. I had wondered if trigger prepping continued to be taught after the Glock was issued.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
yzguy said:
what is "trigger prepping" ??
There are some things best left unknown. This is one of them.

Suffice to say, it was curious, if not simply poor, doctrine (a clear violation of both Rule #3 and NRA "B"), and was at the heart of the 1991 recall of the Models 1076.
 

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by yzguy:
what is "trigger prepping" ??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are some things best left unknown. This is one of them.
I hate it when I don't know the secret handshake.

:censored:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
OldStar said:
I hate it when I don't know the secret handshake.
Aw, jeez…

It's reasonably self-explanatory, and Ed near had it with "taking up the slack."

Ya know how we always instruct, or were instructed, to keep a straight finger 'til we can see our sights?

Well, at one time Quantico… perhaps even during CeePee's celebrated trip there… was instructing a different doctrine which required that the shooter's finger went right onto the trigger as it cleared the holster, and began applying pressure on the way up to target acquisition.

Now I don't know the entire doctrine… whether they never made a presentation without breaking a shot, or TPTB decided that there was something seriously flawed with the garde, or "low ready," position, or what. I just always wondered what happened when an SA in the field had to "call one back." We know that one never brings out a sidearm without the threat of DPF, but that shots are not taken every time the gun comes out.

I don't recall the rest of the doctrine… perhaps Charlie does.
 

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I did spend a lot of time up there and went through the PQC several times. I think "taking up the slack" would be close although you can actually put a good bit of pressure on the trigger before the hammer really moves.

It did not go as far as "staging" which is how most of us shot PPC with revolvers. That involved bringing the trigger back to the point that the cylinder has rotated and locked (or nearly so) and then completing the stroke when the sights were right.
 

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That works great for Leatham, Koenig, Sevigny, etc., on steel targets but in the real world with Glock triggers?
 

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IIRC Ed, we were talking about the 1076 with a long double-action first shot stroke which surely does not apply to Glocks.

One of the harder things to learn in trigger control is to just go forward enough to reset without taking your finger off the trigger altogether. That's the fast way and if you watch the hot shooters like those you mentioned they stay "in touch" with the trigger during the string.
 

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and if you watch the hot shooters like those you mentioned they stay "in touch" with the trigger during the string.
Except for The Great One, per his OWN writing in this month's American Handgunner.

'Course, he's using a single-stage single action trigger...not a DA/SA or a Glockatelli.
 

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Charlie Petty quote:

"IIRC Ed, we were talking about the 1076 with a long double-action first shot stroke which surely does not apply to Glocks.

One of the harder things to learn in trigger control is to just go forward enough to reset without taking your finger off the trigger altogether. That's the fast way and if you watch the hot shooters like those you mentioned they stay "in touch" with the trigger during the string."

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You are correct that the Glock does not have a long double-action first shot stroke, but it does have a long first shot stroke, compared to subsequent shots IF you exercise trigger control.

After a round is fired the Glock trigger resets when it has moved forward about one-third of the distance of the full stroke distance. You can feel it distinctly. When not on the range and operating the slide of an empty weapon you can actually hear the trigger reset.

The shorter trigger stroke on subsequent shots enhances your ability to fire quickly and accurately.

Amazingly to me, most Glock shooters don't know about this technique.

As you said, you have to stay "in touch" with the trigger.

Of course it goes without saying, but I will say it anyway - For that first round never touch the trigger of a Glock until you are on target and intend to fire.
 

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OldStar said:
Amazingly to me, most Glock shooters don't know about this technique.
This technique can be used on some other pistols, but, IIRC, Glock advocates used to claim it as something revolutionary.
 

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While I believe in maintaining contact with the trigger, I understand that there are some that advocate coming completely off the trigger, including Bill Rogers in at least one of the trigger presses that he teaches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
And then there's "The Kid…"

'Bout 13-14 years back, high-speed images were taken of Robbie Leatham in full competition mode. They revealed that his finger came off the trigger between every shot.
 
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