[bearcat6]

This morning I read in my local fish wrapper that the Army is going to allow women into Ranger school. They can win the Ranger tab but they can't serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment. What's the point then. Diversity? I'm really POed about this. I'm just an old infantryman, who wasn't a Ranger or Green beret, or any of that stuff. But I am offended by this. I served with rangers and special ops people who went through a lot of sh**t to earn those qualifications. It's like when they opened Airborne to women they reduced the physical standards to accomodate them. Forgive me I've had a couple of G&Ts so I'm more vocal than usual.

 

[stand watie]

bearcat6,

I'm not offended & I was once (in a far away galaxy) a light infantryman, too. - Instead, I am DISGUSTED as women cannot BE a Ranger & thus training them as Rangers is a WASTE of TIME, MILITARY RESOURCES & taxpayers MONEY.

Hopefully, shortly after 20JAN17, we can start REVERSING all the FOOLISHNESS, FRAUD, WASTE & ABUSE started by BHO & his coven of haters, fools, leftist radicals, weirdos, kooks, sexual perverts & just plain common criminals.

just my OPINION, sw

 

[TooTall]

At the risk of being a "pig" are the women going to be held to the same physical requirements as the men? If so I can't believe you'd have very many if any pass.

 

[William R. Moore]

There's an article in todays Washington Times about the trial run the Marines did on opening infantry slots to women.

246 enlisted tried out, just over 100 (107?) made it. In the Infantry Officers Course, 26 tried the qualifier, ZERO passed. HQMC will now study the results and advise the Joint Chiefs.

We've got to give the French credit for doing it right: St Cyr (their West Point) is open to any woman who meets all the qualifications the men do.

 

[stand watie]

TooTall,

Frankly, I doubt that female candidates will be held to the same standards, though I have to tell you that in the early days of integrating women into the Military Police we did hold EVERYONE to the same standards of height, weight, physical strength, speed, etc.

In those long ago days, a candidate for MP training had to be "during ZERO WEEK", i.e., before entering MP training:
1. At least 70 inches tall,
2. At least 160 pounds,
3. Able to do 50 pushups,
4. Able to do 10 chin-ups,
5. Run 2 miles, in fatigue uniform & combat boots, in 14 minutes,
6. Have no disfiguring scars or marks on the face or neck
and
7. Have no visible tattoos, when dressed in the standard short-sleeve MP Tropical Worsted uniform,
8. Scored in the top ten percent on the AFQT
and
9. Graduated from an accredited high school, with at least a 2.5 GPA, on a 4-point scale.


The "old-school" requirements worked FINE & as long as we were able to enforce those standards on MP candidates we had NO trouble "turning out" high quality apprentice MPs. Then after a while, the MP Corps was "directed by higher authority" that enforcing the SAME STANDARDS of intelligence, education, appearance & strength was "discriminatory" against weak, small of stature and otherwise under-qualified candidates.

ImVho, the SAME "dilution of qualifications" will be required by "higher authority" to assure that women can enter & complete Ranger training.

just my OPINION, sw

 

[bearcat6]

When they opened jump school to women they had a lower standard of physicial fitness than they did for men. I would guess Ranger school will be the same.

 

[dfariswheel]

Note that there's a major difference between Ranger SCHOOL (Ranger tab) and the Ranger Regiment (Ranger scroll).

Ranger School is open to most all Army personnel, including from other services and even foreign military if there's an opening.
Ranger School is to teach combat leadership skills.
Ranger graduates are enthusiastically welcomed to any command due to proven skills under intense pressure.
Graduates are allowed to wear the Ranger school Tab on the uniform.
It's essentially a mark of professionalism.
MOST people who graduate Ranger School never serve in the Ranger Regiment.

The Ranger Regiment is a Special Ops COMBAT unit.
They wear the Ranger Scroll on the uniform.
A new Ranger is run through the selection and training process, then typically does about two combat deployments with a Ranger Battalion.
After that, he has to attend the Ranger School to earn the Tab.
If he fails, he's out, and sent to a standard Infantry unit.

So, a Ranger Tab simply means you were tough enough and smart enough to make it through a really tough school.

The Scroll means you're a combat Ranger in a Ranger Battalion, AND if you're there long you also wear the Ranger Tab.

If a woman is tough enough and smart enough to make it through the school, good.
But she'll never be able to make it in a Ranger B7attalion because of the extreme physical demands of doing the job.
I DON'T mean being able to do some sort of physical training.
I mean the actual combat need to be able to parachute into the field and carry a 100 pound pack, plus weapons and other gear up and down mountains, THEN have enough left to fight a pitched battle at the end.

You can cheat and lower standards for training, but you can't lower the ability to hump that 100 pound pack up a series of Afghanistan mountains.
Inability to do that can't be covered up.

Yes, women can be very good cops, firemen, and other once men-only jobs.
But Rangers, and all other Special Ops people are operating right on the very outside of what a man in absolutely top condition is physically able to do, and most candidates simply can't do it at all and fail.

Again, a lot can be covered up or standards can be cheated on in training, but in combat people are going to notice when the woman fails to make it up that mountain, and due to constraints of the mission, no one is going to be able to carry her load for her.

 

[stand watie]

dfariswheel,

Even in "the old days" of MP female personnel that met the SAME standards as the male apprentices at USAMPS, I never SAW a female that had the upper body strength of the males of the same age. - Thus, I don't believe that any females can graduate from Ranger school, without LOWERING the standards.

just my OPINION, sw

 

[CaptainGyro]

While admittedly rare, I'd bet there are a handful of women who could do it.

One of my wife's aunts is a 99th-percentile type who, after having seven children, would wordlessly walk off into the Montana mountains for days at a time carrying only a rifle, a coat, a knife, and a canteen.

A few days later she would just as wordlessly walk back into the ranch yard humping all of the dressed meat from an elk, moose, or bear...well over a hundred pounds. You didn't really ask her where she'd gone; she just marched into the house, washed up, and picked up where she'd left off with the house work.

It does kind of tickle me to think that someday, some pathetic Islamic thug might realize in his last desperate seconds that the American Ranger who just silently slit his throat was a woman.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Heck... all we have to do is catch them. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find one to swing the knife.

I think that is called poetic justicw...

 

[stand watie]

Charlie Petty,

IF you catch & hold him, my lady (at 68YY & in a wheelchair) will use the knife, as she lost 2 school chums at the Twin Towers.
(The female may possibly not be the "more deadly" of the species BUT they are the most VINDICTIVE & VENGEFUL.)

yours, sw

 

[CaptainGyro]

(The female may possibly not be the "more deadly" of the species BUT they are the most VINDICTIVE & VENGEFUL.)

Aw, c'mon...I'm not sure that's fair.

Now excuse me. I have to go see if any of my clothes that have been slashed to ribbons can be salvaged. I'll be in the front yard.

Cleaning patches, maybe.

 

[stand watie]

CaptainGyro,

RotflmRao.

yours, sw

 

[bearcat6]

This may ruffle some feathers, but here goes. Do you remember several years ago when a bunch of wildland firefighters were killed in Colorado? Living in Oregon I know many forest service people and firefighters. I heard from three different sources that what happened was they were trying to escape the fire, the women couldn't keep up and the men wouldn't leave them. I really do like women, I just think there are some things that men are more qualified to do because of physicial differences. On the other hand women are well qualified to do some things that men can't for the same reason.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Since there were no survivors I would question the source of that...

When I first joined the pd we had a total of TWO female officers both of whom could only work in the youth bureau in plainclothes. In the years since lots of women have joined the force and there have been more than a few good cops.

I think equal opportunity is a good idea as long as it is truly equal and not a quota system.

 

[stand watie]

Charlie Petty,

I'm "fully in" for equal opportunity PROVIDED that it is REALLY equal & things aren't "fudged" to make things "equal".
(Fwiw, the BEST NCO that I ever supervised was a NE farm-gal, who was an MP & a Patrol Supervisor, when I was at Ft Lee. = "SSG Gloria", the only "grrl" in a brood of 5 brothers, was "tougher than a 2-dollar steak" & a REAL leader.)

just my OPINION, sw

 

[Charlie Petty]

"tougher than a 2-dollar steak"

wish I had thought of that...

 

[stand watie]

Charlie Petty,

You can "kidnap" that saying, as I did from an old Army buddy, who was later a detective with the Phenix City, AL Police.

CHUCKLE, sw

 

[bearcat6]

All I think is that they should have to go through exactly the same regimen the men do.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Trust me I will it's just too good not to.