[Kevin Gibson]

Sorry to all for not putting this into the rimfire section, but I really wanted to open this up to everyone. “My” .22 rifle as a kid was a WELL worn Winchester 1890 in .22 Short. I have a love for that rifle that’s unlike an affinity anyone has ever had for a firearm; damn near a family member if you ask me. The rifle is pretty much just worn out, for the most part, beyond restoration (economically speaking); but I can still get the old gal to work. The bolt/receiver lockup is so battered that you have to apply forward pressure on the forend to hold it firmly against the cartridge or it will not fire…that’s worn out!

Anyhow, I took the ole gal out yesterday to introduce her to my kids and let them shoot her. I noticed something that I recall as a kid, but sort of forgotten; a propensity for ricochet’s. I didn’t really get to thinking much about it until I was putting the guns away, but several of the shots out of the .22 Short did produce a very classic Hollywood ricochet sound, whereas the guns shooting .22lr had not one ricochet.

If I were a smart man, I’d just go out and shoot some Short’s in a newer rifle to see if it’s the rifle or the cartridge. I’m suspecting it’s the cartridge because while my old Winchester has a severely worn barrel, I can still hit most things I point her at.

So I was wondering if anyone else has ever noticed an increase in ricochet’s when shooting .22 Shorts?

 

[Retmsgt.]

.22shorts aren't the only cuprits. About 25 years ago,I went over to a co-workers' rural home for some informal shooting. I brought a 5" Bbled Ruger MkII. We went around the back of his house where he nailed a target to a four foot high Oak Stump. We backed off about 25 feet and he pulled a Beretta Jetfire, I think, in 25ACP out. Well, we started shooting and about two minutes in something hit my left shin...Hard. I looked down and there was a hole in my jeans'leg. Ipulled it up and there was an oblong gouge in the skin covering my shin. Tom ran inside and came back out with a first-aid kit and we bandaged it up.My first thought was that one of Toms' neighbors thought we were shooting at them and fired back or something. Tom said his nearest neighbor was 1-1/2 miles away. That's when it hit me! I got up and hobbled over to the stump and pulled the target off. You could plainly see the holes my Winchester .22s put in the stump but, there were nothing but dents in the stump from Toms' .25. At 25 feet, the .25ACP rounds, FMJs, failed to penetrate the Oak Stump and ricochetted.One hitting me in the shin. I'm reminded to always check what I'm shooting into every time I look at my Left shin.

Be very careful Kevin, especially with your kids around.

 

[Patrick Sweeney]

Given the low velocity a .22 Short can muster, ricochets are likely to be easy to produce.

Heck, I've seen .50 BMG ricochets, so they all can do it. (.50 BMG tracers, ricocheting up into the night sky are a beautiful display. Unless you are downrange.)

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Given the low velocity a .22 Short can muster, ricochets are likely to be easy to produce.

Heck, I've seen .50 BMG ricochets, so they all can do it. (.50 BMG tracers, ricocheting up into the night sky are a beautiful display. Unless you are downrange.)

I was thinking there was a connection to the extremely short, stubby bullet (lack of sectional density); I didn't think much about low velocity.

And regarding .50 BMG ricochets. Go to any MG shoot at night and those tracers ricocheting can be entertaining and a bit enlightening.

 

[ExSarge]

We were on a night compass training exercise in Camp Geiger and next to a .50 cal training range (things were a lot "looser" back then) so me and my buddy walked over to watch an awesome display of tracers arcing through the air and then bouncing up. Better than any fireworks display I had seen to date. Must have been at least 5 guns firing at one time.


Haven't shot a short in eons....

 

[shep854]

Given the low velocity a .22 Short can muster, ricochets are likely to be easy to produce.
My thought exactly--what doesn't penetrate, bounces

Heck, I've seen .50 BMG ricochets, so they all can do it. (.50 BMG tracers, ricocheting up into the night sky are a beautiful display. Unless you are downrange.)

Speaking of .50 ricochets; it's so improbable, I keep wondering if it was somehow faked

 

[Charlie Petty]

That one has been around for some time and it sure sounds right. The way his muffs and hat flew off looked real too. It is obvious that he was hit a glancing blow, but I wish the video had shown the result.

 

[Skeptic49]

Isn't ricochets why sintered metal gallery shorts were invented?

Geoff
Who notes it the bullet goes to pieces the individual parts don't hold much velocity.

 

[shep854]

Isn't ricochets why sintered metal gallery shorts were invented?

Geoff
Who notes it the bullet goes to pieces the individual parts don't hold much velocity.

That's also why plain lead bullets are preferred for shooting steel.
I've been nicked more than once by bits of jacketing bouncing off of steel backstops or targets.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Originally they were "spatterless" or variations. The shooter was no more than 10-15' from the targets and the attendant even less so a solid bullet might well bounce back.

I've always thought of a ricochet as a change in direction where the bullet continues on at an angle complimentary to the angle of incidence and with no great loss of velocity.

I shoot a lot of steel and you can often see impacts where the bullet or pieces of it go off to either side but don't go very far.

To me the example of a bullet failing to penetrate a piece of wood and bouncing back is not a ricochet... maybe we need a better name

 

[William R. Moore]

I can recall 2 bounce backs, both involving factory .38 RNL. One involved their failure to penetrate the wood block I was using as a bullet sponge for test firing after repairs. I found the slugs (all six) about halfway between the block and where I was firing from.

The other involved a new pickup truck being used as a range prop in a practical pistol match (IPSC). It belonged to the match director. The stage involved starting at the front of the vehicle and engaging targets, then proceeding to the bed area and doing the same. A major city cop pulled one low. We all heard the impact and cringed. When the line was clear, a bunch of us ran for the truck to eye the presuably perforated fender. No hole. In either inner or outer fender. After considerable astonishment, we realized the round hit the double layered lip on the inside of the top rail where the inner & outer fenders are spot welded together. There was a visible dent.

The gent in question came up and asked about damage and we showed him the dimple and suggested he shovel a wee bit more powder in his reloads. That was when he told us, and his buddies confirmed, they were shooting duty ammo. I'm kinda ashamed to say that this prompted such hysterical laughter on our part, I don't think the guy ever competed again at that range.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Originally they were "spatterless" or variations. The shooter was no more than 10-15' from the targets and the attendant even less so a solid bullet might well bounce back.

I've always thought of a ricochet as a change in direction where the bullet continues on at an angle complimentary to the angle of incidence and with no great loss of velocity.

I shoot a lot of steel and you can often see impacts where the bullet or pieces of it go off to either side but don't go very far.

To me the example of a bullet failing to penetrate a piece of wood and bouncing back is not a ricochet... maybe we need a better name

I'm right there with you, I don't consider fragmented bullets to be a rocochet. Back in the early '90's when some of us were conversing on the Prodigy Shooting Sports Bulletin Board, I was shooting a lot of IPSC and training for the Steel Challenge. I had a very bad knee back then and for extended range sessions I had to wear a very large knee brace that prevented the use of long britches, so I wore shorts all the time.

When shooting steel, often the targets were rather close, so TODAY my shins are a mess of scars and pock marks from bullet spatter that hit my shins. Anytime I've seen the doctor they ask what happened and I can't quite bring myself to tell thm the real reason because they'll think I'm crazy...perhaps that IS a correct diagnosis

 

[shep854]

Kevin you bring back an amusing memory: Not too long ago, I was at the local indoor range (25yd range), when a (new to the range) shooter got dinged by bounceback. He was rather vocal with his displeasure... :roll:

 

[Charlie Petty]

Last night I was at a regular gathering of old retired police and some still working but one of the old timers told of a call where an elderly lady caught a burglar coming through her window. She shot him six times in the head with her .32 S&W and went outside to wait for the po-lice.

She told my buddy that when she shot the suspect the window he was holding up fell and he was trapped.

When he got inside the window, frame and all, was gone, and so was the suspect. He found some hair and one mildly deformed .32 bullet on the floor. No blood.

Further investigation revealed that all the empties in the gun were green.

The BOLO broadcast was for a subject with a bunch of knots on his head

You can't make up stuff like that.

I think we'd call those the good old days.

 

[Retmsgt.]

All this. Hence the reason I carry a 45ACP!

 

[Kevin Gibson]

All this. Hence the reason I carry a 45ACP!

I'm sure I've told this story before...but I had a patient who actually survived a .45 ACP to the head at what Hollywood would call "point blank range" (ooooh, doesn't that sound tough?)

The man was sitting at the table with the assailant who drew a 1911 and from less than 6" distance, the assailant shot the man in the head. On my arrival the man was conscious, alert, in a bit of pain, and rather vocal at his displeasure. There was an entrance wound above his right eyebrow about 2" to the right of centerline (2" or so from the classic "between the eyes" shot). And there was an exit wound about 1" back from the top of the ear (if you were looking directly at his ear from the side, the exit wound would be at around 10:30-ish). There were powder burns on the forehead, eyelids nose and top of the cheeks. For a head wound, there was surprisingly very little blood (head wounds just tend to bleed like all get out). I was clear that the bullet hit, deflected off the skull and traveled sub-cutaneously around the side where it exited. I was under the assumption it was something like a .25 or .32 since I had seen those bounce off of skulls a few times before.

As we were wheeling the gentleman out of the house, one of the officers held up the bagged weapon, and it was clearly a 1911, and there was a fired .45 ACP case in the bag. I have this mental picture of a matte silver Gold Cup, so I'm thinking it was a hard chromed Gold Cup. I have no idea what the load was, but I did tell him we would stop off and get him a lottery ticket on the way to the hospital becase he was "The luckiest SOB I had ever seen."

...it gets better.

At the hospital they took X-Ray's and you could see "coning" on the inside of the skull. You know when a BB hits a window and a little round "cone" pops out on the off side? Well, sure enough, there was "coning" on the inside of the guy's skull; no doubt, one of THE coolest things I've ever seen (although I doubt the patient thought it was cool). I tried to show him the X-Ray and explain it all to him, but he was particularly unimpressed and uninterested…imagine that?

I know I've told that story once or twice…and it probably gets better every time I tell it. But it really was one of the wildest things I have ever seen and I never tire of telling that one.

I'll bet that will be a much better story by the time I hit 80
:thumbsup:

 

[IrishCop]

You guys have all brought stories back to mind for me.

I can't speak for the propensity of .22 Shorts to ricochet versus other calibers, but...

I remember the the first time we qualified with the M-60 at Robins AFB GA. We were shooting the 5 and 1 loads (1 tracer every 5 rounds), and being young and dumb and brought up on TV/Movies, I was astounded to see those .30 caliber bullets bounce off the dirt like a rock skimming off a still pond. An amazing sight.

A little later in my career I was at Camp Bullis learning how to operate an 81mm Mortar. Other guys there were training on the 90 mm Recoiless Rifle and the Ma Deuce. We had a joint night shoot where we supplied illumination for the other two weapons teams. Saw them .50 cal tracers bounce off into the sky, some of them doing more than one loop de loop on the way. Very cool. Oh and the 90 reckless would suck the wind out of you if you stood too close to the operator when he fired. An oldie but a goodie.

As to "lucky" fellas, I've come to the conclusion that there are some people that aren't dead until the head is seperated from the body by at least 6 feet.

 

[Skeptic49]

Just as long as I don't see any remarks about us Scandahoovians and our square heads not being a vulnerable area...
As the esteemed Samuel R. Gerber , Medical professor, Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), Ohio the famous long time Coroner used to say in his lectures, "You never can tell. One man dies of an infected flea bite, another survives a burst from a sub-machine gun, a bad traffic accident, being hit by a truck, and then dies at age 50 of the flu." _or words to that effect.

Geoff
Who will still prefer the .45, but uses a 9mm for Home Defense, because his wife can handle the pistol.

 

[shep854]

"As to "lucky" fellas, I've come to the conclusion that there are some people that aren't dead until the head is seperated from the body by at least 6 feet."--IrishCop

Zommm-beeess :shocked:

 

[IrishCop]

"As to "lucky" fellas, I've come to the conclusion that there are some people that aren't dead until the head is seperated from the body by at least 6 feet."--IrishCop

Zommm-beeess :shocked:

They exist! They exist, I tell you!!! Thats why I sleep with 3 handguns and an AK within reach! (Uhhh, don't mention that to my wife, okay? She's starting to talk commitment, and NOT the good kind!) :thumbsup: