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Guns and deep remorse in the land Down Under
It happened in Australia last week. The robber waylaid Karen Brown in the carpark outside a Sydney hotel. Brown, a 42-year-old security guard, had just picked up a deposit bag containing the hotel take, something between $30,000 and $50,000. She was dressed in civilian clothes.

The robber was wearing brass knuckles. Lifting Brown by the hair, he punched her repeatedly in the head and bashed her to the ground, fracturing her skull, an eye socket, her nose and left hand, and leaving her possibly brain damaged. Then the robber, a 25-year-old ex-con named William Aquilina, dragged Brown across the asphalt toward his stolen getaway car, dropping her like a rag doll when she finally released the deposit bag. Aquilina then got into the car. Blood pouring into her eyes, Brown somehow managed to stand up, remove her concealed handgun and take aim at the driver's seat. …

This week Brown was charged with one count of murder. It's hard to imagine her being convicted because she was, after all, doing her job. But had she been a mere citizen with a legal permit to carry a concealed weapon, a conviction would be much more likely, since Aquilina apparently did not pose a threat to her when she killed him.
Inconceivable!

The whole sickening story en toto.
 

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DeanSpeir said:
Inconceivable!
And from Andrè the Giant in The Princess Bride:
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Unfortunately, circumstances are about to the point that I could offer that rejoinder without it being tongue in cheek.

I think United States case law provides a strong defense for this shooting on the basis that the decedent's actions clearly demonstrate that he poses a risk to the community if he is allowed to escape. I don't know about Australia. Besides, after the battering, it shouldn't be a surprise that Ms. Brown wasn't thinking clearly... but whose fault is that?
As for Rasmussen, no she was not just a bitch. Your ex-con grandson was a barbaric slug, undeserving of being called a man, whose removal from the gene pool was overdue. Whether he was a slug from genetics or upbringing, you are much more responsible for his miserable life and early, but not tragic, death than Ms. Brown. I suspect you know that, and that is why you are lashing out at her.
"Sorry," you say, and indeed you are. Be ashamed.
 

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"She's just a Bitch, sorry"

That line sort of sums it all up.Can't you come up with anything better than to call her a bitch?

A women -- any women -- does something to piss you off and automatically she's a Bitch. A member of a minority does something and the best they can say is Stupid ni***r, Arab, Sp**k... I do something and it's "dammed cripple!" If he (Rasmussen) really had a case, he could have come up with a better argument.

"Illogical Will Robinson, that does not compute!"

The mind recoils...

Ed
 

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When even the cops are castrated, you know a country has a serious problem. There are hundreds of millions of people to their north who would just love to move in and take over. With attitudes like the one just described by "officer" Rasmussen, it seems pretty likely.

Australia appears to be yet another Western nation that will disappear not with a bang, but with a whimper.
 

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I don't doubt that if the same thing happened in many areas of this country, the security guard would be charged with some type of homicide.
As Tim Burke points out, a good case can be made that the guard was not thinking clearly as a result of the beating. A jury could find she reasonably thought she was still at risk of being killed and fired in self-defense. But if she fired to stop an escape, as opposed to stopping the attack upon her, many states, including Tennessee, prohibit private citizens (including security guards) from using deadly force to stop a criminal's flight.

A year of so ago, a barber in Nashville was killed when he tried to stop an armed robbery at an adjacent business. The news story noted that years earlier the barber had shot an armed robber who was fleeing from his shop. The barber was convicted of manslaughter.

I have no sympathy for armed robbers who get shot during or after the crime. They are obviously suffering from a serious mineral deficiency, which can be cured by the high-speed injection of lead.
 

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Yup, can't shoot'em when they're running - more's the pity. I emailed the author of the piece with some pithy (to me) commentary.
 

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Reminds me of Kerry... If she was a Democrat in the US, she would have been awarded a Bronze Star.
Oh, wait, the kid Kerry killed didn't actually attack him.
 

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I suppose the tried and true Southern affirmative defense of "He needed killin'" wouldn't work either. If they really need to make an example out of her they should convict her of littering.
 

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JR said:
But if she fired to stop an escape, as opposed to stopping the attack upon her, many states, including Tennessee, prohibit private citizens (including security guards) from using deadly force to stop a criminal's flight.
Fortuneately, Texas is more enlightened. If a criminal is fleeing and has your property or property you're charged with protecting, and if you have reasonable belief the property will not be recovered, you can use deadly force. You have to decide if the possible/probable hassle and legal expenses are worth it and if you can live with your actions. Sounds like she can't. Sad.
 

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So far no one has asked the question that seems obvious to me: What the hell was this woman doing working as a security guard?!! She was obviously totally unprepared to do the job. On another note, she probably be charged in many US locals, including mine, but based on the standard of "what would a reasonable person do under the circumstances?", you just might find 12 people to answer "Shoot the son of a bitch!" or in this case the grandson of a moron.
 

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Offender, departing scene

On the topic of shooting a departing offender, my personal rules of engagement consider:

1. Avoid committing a crime myself.
2. LEOs can apprehend by gunfire. I can't.
3. If the crime does not warrant a death sentence should the offender be captured, tried, and found guilty, then I am not authorized to issue a death sentence either.
4. The hazard to me ceases when the offender starts to leave.

No, I don't plan to pull out a checklist when I or my loved ones are attacked -- I'll just defend me/them as long as I am able, and as long as the attack persists.

I do not want to do time for killing the offender, especially if that time may be spent in company with the offender's friends.
 

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Matt Storch said:
So far no one has asked the question that seems obvious to me: What the hell was this woman doing working as a security guard?!! She was obviously totally unprepared to do the job.
Oh I'll bet she thought that carrying the gun was enough and that living in a superiorly civilized place like Oz she would never have to actually use it..,

Ed
 

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Well, if I was on the grand jury or the trial jury, & I all had was the evidence I have read in the story, I would vote to aquit.

A. After just having the crap beat out of her, she may not have been able to think rationally &

B. After enduring a beating such as described, she was probably still in fear for her life & was afraid the guy would come back & finish her off.


Even though here in gods country down south, a true bill against her would in all likely hood not been returned by a grand jury, she would probably have to deal with a civil wrongful death suit by the knuckleheaded relatives.
 

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They don't call me Special Ed for nuthin! I have a different version, it's called

Condition Rose tinted
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Matt said:
Actually it sounds to me like most of those involved are living in Condition Black i.e. with their heads up someplace dark and stinky.
Point taken, Matt, but there actually is a Condition Black which Jeff Cooper excluded from his color codes source, and that's the one past Red… the flag has flown and you need to be fighting.
 
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