So much for "perfection." :roll:
SIG and H&K take DHS contract as Glocks flop…
The Department Of Homeland Security is going to be toting SIG P226s, 229s and 239s in 9 X 19mm, and .40 S&W and H&Ks in 9 X 19mm, .40 S&W and ".357" {sic}.
The SIGArms deal is worth $23.7 million while HK Inc. gets one for $26.2 million, just in time to get their new manufacturing facility in Columbus, GA, off to a productive start.
Informed, but not altogether impartial, sources reveal that the bulk of the Austrian entries went "belly-up during the endurance tests." The "principal failures" were not described, but at this writing Gaston and company are not protesting the awards.
More as this develops.
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Must have been the ammo! (either that or they were limp-wristing...)
I noticed that the Sigs were all either K-triggers or DAO. Is this a meaningful wind change, or just good PR by Sigarms?
Harvey
Harvey
What's a "K Trigger" ?
What's a "K Trigger" ?
What's a "K Trigger" ?
You will doubtless also have noted that this procurement involved a four-month T&E ramrodded by Immigration and Customs Enforcement's National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit, and that they selected, along with the DAO, the DAK trigger. I doubt that Fernando's good chum, Todd Louis Green, was able to flim-flam ICE with smoke, mirror and vaporware… that the P239 hasn't as yet been offered in that configuration is but a mere trifling; I'm sure it will be before the year is out!Harvey said:I noticed that the Sigs were all either K-triggers or DAO. Is this a meaningful wind change, or just good PR by Sigarms?
(And if Toddy did do a job on them, then I predict that he will be a very youthful and wealthy retiree!)
I can understand having different size pistols for different assignments. I can even accept 9mm in the smallest model for the recoil conscious. But why .40 AND 357 SIG???DeanSpeir said:The Department Of Homeland Security is going to be toting SIG P226s, 229s and 239s in 9 X 19mm, and .40 S&W and H&Ks in 9 X 19mm, .40 S&W and ".357"
I'd ask, "Why 9mm?"Jr said:I can understand having different size pistols for different assignments. I can even accept 9mm for the smallest model for the recoil conscious. But why .40 and 357 SIG???
Tx DPS aka Highway Patrol moved to the 357 SIG for the "recoil conscious." They used the P229 and P226 and replaced the P220.
I wasn't aware the USP was chambered in .357. I thought the chambering for that pistol were 9mm, .40, and .45. Maybe they mixed up SIG and H&K's chamberings, or maybe this means there's a new chambering.
EDIT:
Or maybe I need to do a little more research. Wasn't aware the USP Compact came in .357. Guess I learn something new every day.
EDIT:
Or maybe I need to do a little more research. Wasn't aware the USP Compact came in .357. Guess I learn something new every day.
About that SIG trigger…
SIG's DAK trigger uses different leverage points and reset points to provide a light all-double-action trigger with a short reset. It is said to be similar in length of pull and feel to a well honed S&W revolver trigger. The base weight is about 6½ pounds and is very smooth.
And yes, it does have the highly desirable double-strike capability.
SIG's DAK trigger uses different leverage points and reset points to provide a light all-double-action trigger with a short reset. It is said to be similar in length of pull and feel to a well honed S&W revolver trigger. The base weight is about 6½ pounds and is very smooth.
And yes, it does have the highly desirable double-strike capability.
I'm gonna call this...
one of the best decisions in LE firearms procurement that I have seen in a long, long time.
one of the best decisions in LE firearms procurement that I have seen in a long, long time.
What ever happened to the 228?
I thought Sig was holding those in reserve for government orders, but I don't see it on that list. As far as I know, it was only available in 9mm.
I hope that Sig hasn't completely abandoned their production. They one I have is superb and I would really like to get another someday.
I thought Sig was holding those in reserve for government orders, but I don't see it on that list. As far as I know, it was only available in 9mm.
I hope that Sig hasn't completely abandoned their production. They one I have is superb and I would really like to get another someday.
A pretty big deal if all the options are exercised. Covers about 75% of the federal market, which is about 10% of the total US LE market.
Most feds covered by this deal want/issue 9/40s, and I think the feds already have options on SIG 357s by way of previous deals w Treasury.
Last time the INS guys worked some guns over (in 94), they thought the Beretta was better than the SIG and Glock. Beretta didn't get much of a ripple effect in sales off that contract (but this one is bigger and covers more folks now). The FBI, DEA, and Marshals bought/issued mostly Glocks after that anyway. The DEA had options on SIGs and HKs but bought/issued mostly Glocks since 98 for example.
I think the base year is about 19,000 pistols w about 11,000 for yrs 2-5. Will be interesting to see how many of what actually gets bought and where they go.
Most feds covered by this deal want/issue 9/40s, and I think the feds already have options on SIG 357s by way of previous deals w Treasury.
Last time the INS guys worked some guns over (in 94), they thought the Beretta was better than the SIG and Glock. Beretta didn't get much of a ripple effect in sales off that contract (but this one is bigger and covers more folks now). The FBI, DEA, and Marshals bought/issued mostly Glocks after that anyway. The DEA had options on SIGs and HKs but bought/issued mostly Glocks since 98 for example.
I think the base year is about 19,000 pistols w about 11,000 for yrs 2-5. Will be interesting to see how many of what actually gets bought and where they go.
I did notice that, and I'm sure it is meaningful. OTOH, a friend of mine at the Columbus OH PD told me of their testing the .40 S&W P-226-DAK earlier this year. My friend currently works in Intelligence, and was formerly in both K-9 and SWAT. He also is an FTO, and is a 20+ year CPD veteran.You will doubtless also have noted that this procurement involved a four-month T&E ramrodded by Immigration and Customs Enforcement's National Firearms and Tactical Training Unit, and that they selected, along with the DAO, the DAK trigger.
"After 2 or 3 thousand rounds, all six of our test guns would malfunction. The slide would lock open with a nearly full magazine.
We contacted SIG twice to be told it was operator error. Finally, they were able to make their guns at the factory do it when they shot enough rounds. The guns were returned and new springs installed. The same thing happened again, and SIG said the problem had been corrected - it MUST be operator error.
It was probably more their corporate attitude than the guns that got them disqualified. The PD fair haired boys REALLY wanted those SIG K guns! If SIG would have really taken care of the problem, we'd have 'em by now - but an expensive gun is a hard sell when it doesn't work."
Maybe Sigarms was preoccupied with the much larger Fed contract, so they didn't pay much attention to Columbus. :?: Perhaps CPD also helped Sigarms correct an issue that allowed them to win the Fed contract? Quien sabe?
Harvey
Of course, the various DHS SWAT teams will still want 1911s... 
Harvey says...
http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php ... highlight=[/code][/url]
Ahh, the two-headed monster of Premature Slide Lock & Indifferent Customer Service. Some fans of the Springfield XD-40 are enduring similar trials, even as we speak; the whole sordid story is here if you'd care to read it:We contacted SIG twice to be told it was operator error. Finally, they were able to make their guns at the factory do it when they shot enough rounds. The guns were returned and new springs installed. The same thing happened again, and SIG said the problem had been corrected - it MUST be operator error.
http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php ... highlight=[/code][/url]
There must be a lot of Premature Slide Lock going around. Mas Ayoob was getting it with a 1911 he was testing in May--it might have been a Kimber or it might have been another one (it's always hard to keep track of exactly how many guns are at hand when Mas is around). I offered to bring it home one night and fix it--it's a simple fix in a 1911--but he declined. It'll be interesting to see if he mentions it when the writeup appears.
I was a "1911 man"...
for about 20 years altogether, and one of the first things I had to learn was to turn that thumb down when acquiring a firing grip. It really wasn't until I started teaching myself that I was in a position to watch other shooters make the same mistake, with a bird's eye view.
I'm sure Mas probably don't need me to tell him to keep his thumb off the slide stop, though. I 'spect if says it's the gun, that's where the problem lies.
for about 20 years altogether, and one of the first things I had to learn was to turn that thumb down when acquiring a firing grip. It really wasn't until I started teaching myself that I was in a position to watch other shooters make the same mistake, with a bird's eye view.
I'm sure Mas probably don't need me to tell him to keep his thumb off the slide stop, though. I 'spect if says it's the gun, that's where the problem lies.
Mas shoots everything thumbs down, so I'm sure he wasn't bumping it up.
I shoot thumbs forward, and I have also never had a problem bumping the slide stop up. One of the first guns I built, I put on a trendy extended slide stop. I found out first time I shot it that my thumb would keep it down, preventing slide lock at empty mag. I took the thing off immediately and replaced it with a GI unit, and it sits in my graveyard of inferior and unused 1911 parts to this day.
When I went to put the Ciener .22 conversion on an Essex frame, I found out that the slide stop hole in the frame must have been just >< that much off because it wouldn't assemble. After I got the thing up and running on the ODI frame (see another thread for THAT story), I decided to see if I could mount it to the Essex frame by filing on that unused extended slide stop (the slide stop function doesn't work on Cieners anyway, so no loss). Got it to fit but have never fired that combination yet. Someday I'll try it.
I shoot thumbs forward, and I have also never had a problem bumping the slide stop up. One of the first guns I built, I put on a trendy extended slide stop. I found out first time I shot it that my thumb would keep it down, preventing slide lock at empty mag. I took the thing off immediately and replaced it with a GI unit, and it sits in my graveyard of inferior and unused 1911 parts to this day.
When I went to put the Ciener .22 conversion on an Essex frame, I found out that the slide stop hole in the frame must have been just >< that much off because it wouldn't assemble. After I got the thing up and running on the ODI frame (see another thread for THAT story), I decided to see if I could mount it to the Essex frame by filing on that unused extended slide stop (the slide stop function doesn't work on Cieners anyway, so no loss). Got it to fit but have never fired that combination yet. Someday I'll try it.
Duplicate post deleted. Stupid ones and zeros! :roll:
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