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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think stylistically they at least tried. It's better looking than most.
Remington Announces New R-51 Pistol - The Firearm Blog

I have always wondered why no one ever took the 51 locking system and ran with it. I've always thought it was a rather slick idea. It's not what I'd call "proven" so I think time will reveal how well it is and if improvements need to be made.

The original Remington 51 was an ergonomic masterpiece, and the new one looks like the ergo's are well thought out too. I will be very interested in how well this one turns out because it looks like it has potential.

But here's my beef...

With the trigger cocking guns, I really would like a manual thumb safety. There have been many incidents with Glock's during re-holstering. Something gets inside the trigger guard as someone is forcefully pushing the gun into the holster, and that something disables every safety and the user is left with a groove in his leg. And I tend to think the Glock type trigger is the safest of the bunch, and it still happens. The S&W trigger is a horrible design, but you can have the S&W with a manual thumb safety.

The grip safety of the 51 and the XD really won't help you. Chances are, your hand will be firmly on the grip when holstering, so it's really not going to save you. The only thing that can prevent such an issue is a thumb safety.

Now I understand that this is one very specific type of incident and you can avert that by just being careful. But there's one other big advantage to having a thumb safety. You can install any kind of trigger you want.

Last year a friend and I built up a S&W M&P .45 using a 3lb trigger system that included an aluminum ONE PIECE trigger. That pretty much dealt with the only real flaws the M&P had (ugliness can't be helped). The end result was a 12 round pistol that worked much like a 1911/Hi Power that was completely safe.

Back to the Remingtion. I love the overall size, and shape of the gun; it's about idea for a daily carry gun.

I'm hoping this one works out well.
 

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Well, I like the looks of the gun myself and if I ever get my mitts on one, it will be that kind of first hand examination that will convince me to buy one. That is, assuming there isn't something that is off-putting, like poor machining, or say if it takes a hydraulic press to manipulate the slide.
As for safeties ..... I have an XD 45, and XDs .45, a Glock 19 and a S&W MP 40, along with a couple other semis and a revolver or two (not counting various black powder revolvers). I can sorta somewhat "get" your point of view on the Glock and SW trigger thing, but OTOH I have always believed the only REAL safety is the grey matter betwixt the hearing organs.
In other words: keep one's mind on the weapon and KNOW HOW IT WORKS.
One horror story I recall reading about to this day was concerning a mother, her son and a boyfriend. He came over and noticed the son had gotten hold of his mother's gun, a small automatic and was playing with it - - as in pointing it and pretend shooting. He grabbed the gun from the child and warned him, quit rightly, about the dangers of what he was doing, then went into full stupid mode when he noticed the weapon had no magazine in it. Thinking the gun unloaded and doing no further checks he .... "playfully" pointed it at the kid he'd just admonished for doing the same thing and pulled the trigger .........
Oh yea, I know what you're thinking. I know because you're smart enough to get it and so is everyone on this board.
There was a round that was in the chamber.
Yup. It fired. One dead child.
Atleast the kid had been smart enough NOT to actually pull the trigger.
That's an example of not understanding how the gun works. Just because it lacked a magazine didn't mean it couldn't fire.
And safeties go agly as well .... I recall ANOTHER story when the malfunction of a rifle's safety actually CAUSED a discharge when unloading it, and as the rifle had a blind magazine (bolt action) guess how the gun had to be emptied.
This was done by a older kid who atleast had the sense to keep the wepon aimed in a safe direction.
Incidents such as these formed my attitude toward weapons and safeties. They're great. A safety is a nice device. But it can fail.
I have a Sig Sauer SP 2022 which has no manual safety. It is a double action gun with an external hammer with a fairly good length of trigger pull though, but I like it. I also have a P- 238 which is Sig's .380ACP single action pocket pistol. It is similar to the Colt Mustang (basically a copy) and has a 1911 like action with a thumb safety, but lacks the type the XD & 1911 have in the backstrap. The P238 is another gun I like.
I'd probably like the new Remington R 51 too. As I said, something may turn me off about it. A really crappy trigger...that would be bad. I've heard people who have seen it say it was larger than they'd like -- or thought it would be ... I reserve judgement til I see one. Maybe it's not a good gun. The price seems reasonable and it will be nice to have a metal gun ...not a "plastic" gun. Not that I am against those -- I have some.
But sometimes metal is nice.
We'll see. I am waiting patiently (sorta) for my local store to obtain some to check out.
 

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Kevin you're absolutely right about the M51. It is one of the best feeling pistols ever and it is so thin it carries like a dream.

A good friend who was a Miami-Dade cop carried a .380 as a backup gun for his entire career.

I've got both .32 and .380 models and they are great fun to shoot but don't do it often.

Haven't seen the new one yet.
 

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The materials in any new product depends upon the target market.

I've spent the last 30 years using firearms as tools. Asthetics aren't a consideration. Do you really care about the style, finish and materials on, say, an adjustable wrench?

On the breech system of the M51/R51. It worked with low pressure cartridges given the use patterns of back when. Wonder how it will stand up to higher pressures and usage?
 

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On the breech system of the M51/R51. It worked with low pressure cartridges given the use patterns of back when. Wonder how it will stand up to higher pressures and usage?
This is from Remington, with all the good and bad included. Given their legal department, I have no doubt there is an early production selection being fed a steady diet of +P+ and proof loads on a Remington range, until something fails.

Does anyone know the current round count on some of those Glock 17s?:confused:

Geoff
Who suspects legal paranoia may be a good thing.
 

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I don't think there is a +P+ .380 load, although Remington could certainly make themselves some if they wanted and proof loads are only 24,000 CUP and standard max is 17,000.

While the gun companies don't advertise it they all have estimated "service life" values in mind I seem to remember that the service life for the M9 Beretta was 7,000 rounds.

I would bet that the average .380 pistol isn't fired 1000 rounds in it's life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How do they compare to the Browning .380 / FN 1910? I have heard complaints about the Browning grip safety spring being stronger than necessary and detrimental to accuracy.

Geoff
Who is a curious fellow.
The Remington was larger by a good margin, so much more comfortable in the hand. As for accuracy and reliability, I'd say it's about a wash. The Remington is probably a bit easier to shoot than the Browning 1910, while the 1910 is more of a pocket pistol. I've never heard of the grip safety having any accuracy detriment on the 1910 design; that's a bit weird. It's a fixed barrel .380, so the accuracy is all there.
 
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