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Azrael said:
I have seen FAR more horror movies than you
This is not likely for several reasons…
  1. I've got many years on you, and I started spending time in the dark in '48. The horror genre wasn't particularly in vogue at that time, but the Karloff (which is how he was billed in the end credits, no first name) Frankenstein and the Bela Lugosi Dracula were re-released as a double feature in '52, and I was hooked. There was a movie-house on the other side of Detroit where I lived at the time which regularly showed the old Universal scarums, and I was able to catch up with the Wolfman and the entire Mummy series (five flicks… the original with Boris Karloff, one with Tom Tyler and three with Creighton Chaney who was billing himself as Lon Jr.) In that '51-'53 time frame there was a late Wednesday night movie host who styled herself as "The White Camellia" and showed off-beat horror flicks like Weird Woman and The Black Cat.[/*:3cokcpvk]
  2. Starting in Fall '57, the local ABC affiliate back here in Noo Yawk regularly showed everything they could haul out of the film vaults in their Friday late night "Chiller Theater." And when that proved popular, they brought the great John Zacherle up from Philadelphia (where he'd been doing similar duty as "Roland," and he added a great deal to the revival of the genre.[/*:3cokcpvk]
  3. By the late '60s/earliest '70s, my young daughter had become a fan and Saturday evenings we'd watch "Creature Features" on Channel 5, followed by "Chiller Thriller" on Channel 11, then she'd take a nap 'til Channel 8 up in New Haven ran their "Monster-rama" show at 1:05 am. We were able to cover a great deal of territory on our weekend ritual, which used to make her mother crazed![/*:3cokcpvk]
  4. Finally, in the late '70s I started reviewing movies for radio and TV, to the tune of over 250 flicks a year! And when the greatest bogeyman'll-getcha flick ever made came along just in time for Halloween '78, and shortly thereafter Jamie Lee Curtis was established as the heiress apparent to the great Fay Wray as Screen Scream Queen (try saying that real fast!), the new horror flick cycle was upon us… and I saw everyone one of them! I had to, as my two radio stations were rock 'n' roll-based, and the target demographic was similar! I saw some decent ones, and a whole slew of genuinely dreadful ones. I got so good at identifying the conventions that I could nail whatever surprise was in store by the second reel at the latest. After a while, I started reviewing the audiences on opening Friday nights instead of the flick, because they were a better arbiter of the quality of the flick than I was, and I'd rate it based on what minute-mark they'd stop yakking with one another and start flipping lit cigarettes at the screen. (On a more personal note, my very first such review in which I characterized the audience as a "typical bunch of brain-dead Mastic-Shirley bubbleheads," generated considerable 'phone response from the radio listeners, mostly outraged parents from the Mastic-Shirley area who insisted that their prides and joys were honor students, and how dare Waldo say such a thing! One solitary dissenting caller probably saved my on-air career when she called and sincerely wanted to start a fan club for me! Through a series of coincidences and ironies, it was the same woman with whom I have been for a number of years.)[/*:3cokcpvk]
So, I doubt that you have anything on me in the number of horror flicks… with the admitted exception of the "Freddie Krugers." I could never get interested in the Nightmare… series, I'm afraid.
 

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Dean,
I was yankin your chain...or maybe i wasnt...what ya think of the new horror movies that are coming from the UK and Japan??

I think at times I was born 20 years late for my taste's in horror...lol

Bava, Argento, Fulci (the Italian masters) were years before I discovered Horror...

I was never much of a Nightmare fan...Although I loved the first one, and Freddy VS Jason...

Friday the 13th is still my favorite series, followed by Halloween...

1 question...Since you were watching horror movies that early...Were you (are) a Hammer fan?? Just curious...

On topic...

LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of goats have been killed in horror movies...I dont think they did a Incapacitation time on them however...mahahahahaahahaaaa
 

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Dean and Azrael (and anyone else), I'd be interested in your opinions of the old John Carpenter flick Assault on Precinct 13. I always thought that was a great movie (for what it was), but it took me 20 years to figure exactly why I liked it so much.

I've heard that they're currently shooting a remake. Should be interesting, but I don't think I've ever seen a remake of anything that was better than the original (except for Ocean's Eleven).

There's already been one remake of it, Jim Wynorski's The Assault, with an (almost) all-girl cast. That one wasn't great, but it was interesting. But it lacked the specific dynamic that made the original so interesting (to me, anyway).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Azrael said:
Since you were watching horror movies that early...Were you (are) a Hammer fan??
To an extent… had a great appreciation of Peter Cushing, Christopher Lee, Michael Gough and, of course, Jimmy Sangster. (And who could ever forget the full-frontal Collinson twins, Madeleine and Mary!?)
Ed said:
Anyone remember Dr. Shock?
Sure… he was actually the successor to Zacherle's "Roland" character (with Zach's blessing) in the Philadelphia market. Died way before his time! Sig: "Let there be fright!"
Snake said:
I'd be interested in your opinions of the old John Carpenter flick Assault on Precinct 13.
Friend and neighbor of mine, Marty Weixelbaum (as "Martin West"), had a leading role in that one, so I had to see it… let's just say that I didn't become a Carpenter fan 'til the extraordinary Halloween!

And Assault on Precinct 13 had some horrendous gun gaffes, to boot… a suppressed revolver (which wasn't from a black ops toy shop!), changing round counts, absurd explanation for not knowing why a gun was empty, etc.

In retrospect, I think I'm a bigger fan of Carpenter's music than his films. Few realize that his theme for Halloween was utilized by Michael Mann in the singularly most memorable Miami Vice episode ever.
 

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DeanSpeir said:
And Assault on Precinct 13 had some horrendous gun gaffes, to boot… a suppressed revolver (which wasn't from a black ops toy shop!), changing round counts, absurd explanation for not knowing why a gun was empty, etc.
Granted. But it also had one of the nicest gun scenes I've ever seen, too, the one where the black cop is trying to get the shotgun out of the locked crate as the gangbangers are coming through the windows, and at the last possible second he gets it out, and tosses it to the con, who, in one fluid motion, catches it, spins around, racks it, and begins blasting--pure poetry in motion!

What I really liked about that movie, though, was the dynamic of the three main characters as it went on--the bonding and tension between and among them. Know what I'm talking about?

I don't recall the name Martin West and it's been years since I've seen it--which role did he play?

I too am a fan of JC's music--the Halloween stuff, AP13, and Escape from New York. I don't offhand remember the Halloween music in Miami Vice--which episode was that in? (Good Lord, has Miami Vice really been 20 years ago?)
 

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DeanSpeir said:
In retrospect, I think I'm a bigger fan of Carpenter's music than his films. Few realize that his theme for Halloween was utilized by Michael Mann in the singularly most memorable Miami Vice episode ever.
Was that the third season episode, "Shadow in the Dark", where Crockett was after the cat burglar with the flour and meat fetish?
 

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O, sweet honey mustard! I should buy back my introductions to both of you!

It was the episode in the first season which transformed Miami Vice from a stylish extended music video about a salt 'n' pepper cops team, into a "honey, do whatever you want tonight 'cause my show is on" must-see TV for every gunzine groupie with a boob tube, and it initially aired 20 years ago this coming Tuesday (19 October).

The episode was originally entitled "Hit List," and was remarkable on several counts:
  1. A leading character, Lieutenant Lou Rodriguez (Gregory Sierra), was killed off in only the fourth show of the series.[/*:i0x08ajd]
  2. It was the first appearance of a recurring prop on the series, the Franchi SPAS-12 used by Argentinean contract killer Ludovici Armstrong (Jim Zubiena) to blow up a drug lord and his limo.[/*:i0x08ajd]
  3. It featured Armstrong's extraordinary 1.86-second Mozambique from concealment… that sequence alone cost gin mills around the country a considerable chunk of change on Friday nights for the next several years.[/*:i0x08ajd]
Not for nuthin', Fernando, but that episode you cited which was the 1986 Halloween show, was directed by Christopher Crowe. That was another remarkable aspect of the series, the astounding number of actors and directors who cut their teeth during its five year run.
 

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Well, for what it's worth, I do remember that particular episode. I remember the one with Ted Nugent, and the one with Willie Nelson (Which opened with Bon Jovi's "Dead or Alive,") and the one where Frank Zappa called coke "weasel dust," and the one with Crockett's Dirty Harry-like hostage rescue head shot ("Maybe....you won't even....twitch"), and the two with G. Gordon Thunderbolt, and that's about all.

I'm obsessive about a few things in my life (on a good day I can recite the two-letter squadron codes of each and every one of the 45 squadrons of 8th Fighter Command in WWII), but old episodes of Miami Vice isn't one of them. :)
 

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Snake45 said:
…rockett's Dirty Harry-like hostage rescue head shot
That was "Glades," another episode which further cemented Friday evenings as stay-at-home for gun folk.

Mann was known for hauling in both odd-ball "guests" for leads or bits. Among the more than 750 guest stars and actors/actresses, supporting and otherwise, there was among the more notables: Amanda Plummer, Annette Bening, Antonio Fargas, Austin Pendleton, Barry Primus, Ben Stiller, Benicio Del Toro, Bianca Jagger, Bill Paxton, Bill Smitrovich, Bob Balaban, Bob Gunton, Brad Dourif, Brian Dennehy, Brion James, Bruce McGill, Bruce Willis, Burt Young, Cameron Dye, Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa, CCH Pounder, Charles Rocket, Charles S. Dutton, Chris Cooper, Chris Rock, Clarence Williams III, Clayton Rohner, D.W. Moffett, Dan Hedaya, David Johansen, David Patrick Kelly, David Proval, David Rasche, David Strathairn, David Thornton, Dean Stockwell, Debra Feuer (whuff!), Dennis Farina, Dennis Johnson, Don King, Dylan Baker, Eartha Kitt, Ed O'Neill, Elizabeth Ashley, Elizabeth Berridge, Ellen Greene, Elpidia Carrillo, Eric Bogosian, Esai Morales, Frank Stallone, Frank Zappa, Frankie Valli, G. Gordon Liddy, Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon, Gary Basaraba, Gary Cole, Gene Simmons, George Takei, Gerrit Graham, Giancarlo Esposito, Glenn Frey, Guy Boyd, Haing S. Ngor, Harry Shearer, Harvey Fierstein, Helena Bonham-Carter, Iman, Isaac Hayes, Jacqueline Brookes, James Brown, James Hong, James Remar, James Russo, James Tolkan, Jay O. Sanders, Jeff Fahey, Jeroen Krabbé, Jerry Hardin, Jimmie Ray Weeks, Jimmy Rogers, Jimmy Smits, Joan Chen, Joaquim de Almeida, Joe Dallesandro, Joe Morton, Joe Santos, Joe Turkel, John Glover, John Heard, John Kapelos, John Matuszak, John Pankow, John Santucci, John Turturro, Jon Polito, Julia Roberts, Julian Beck, Karen Black, Katherine Borowitz, Keith Gordon, Kelly Lynch, Kevyn Major Howard, Keye Luke, Kiel Martin, Kyra Sedgwick, Laura San Giacomo, Laurence Fishburne, Lee Iacocca, Leonard Cohen, Liam Neeson, Lisa Eichhorn, Lisa Marie, Little Richard, Lonette McKee, Lori Petty, Lou Diamond Phillips, Luis Guzman, Lynn Whitfield, Margaret Avery, Mark Linn-Baker, Mark Metcalf, Martin Ferraro, Meg Foster, Melanie Griffith, Melissa Leo, Michael Chiklis, Michael Madsen, Michael Wincott, Miguel Ferrer, Miguel Piñero, Miles Davis, Monti Rock III, Mykelti Williamson, Nathan Lane, Oliver Platt, Pam Grier, Patti D'Arbanville, Paul Gleason, Paul Guilfoyle, Penelope Ann Miller, Penn Jillette (and Teller), Pepe Serna, Perry Lang, Peter Allen, Phil Collins, Philip Baker Hall, Pruitt Taylor Vince, R. Lee Ermey, Randall "Tex" Cobb, Ray Sharkey (so sad), Reni Santoni, Richard Belzer, Richard Gant, Richard Jenkins, Rita Moreno, Robert Joy, Robert Pastorelli, Roberto Duran, Ron Perlman, Rosalind Chao, Sonny Landham, Stanley Tucci, Stefan Gierasch, Stephen McHattie, Steve Buscemi, Steven Keats, Steven Tyler, Suzy Amis, Sylvia Miles, Ted Nugent, Terry O'Quinn, Tom Waites, Timothy Carhart, Tom Signorelli, Tommy Chong, Tommy Koenig, Tony Plana, Tony Sirico, Val Bisoglio, Vanity, Veronica Cartwright, Victor Argo, Viggo Mortensen, Vincent D'Onofrio, Vincent Schiavelli, Ving Rhames, Wesley Snipes, William Hickey, William "Evan" Russ, Willie Nelson and Xander Berkeley….

Some of these were already established, and some were on the way up or biding their time/paying their dues in the trenches. You might not recognize all the names, but you're probably know the faces.

One thing I realize is that Mann is clearly a "soft touch" for guys in trouble. He gave the late Ray Sharkey "just show up" roles in both MV and Crime Story when he was in the deepest throes of his smack addition… I wondered at the time why a powerhouse guy like Sharkey had a nothing role in several CS episodes, and it turned out that Mann was just tossing him a paycheck so he could stay alive/maintain his jones/exist 'til he rehab'd, whatever. (Sharkey went on to do that inaugural half-season arc on Wiseguy as "Sonny Steelgrave," and one of the two worst jobbings ever given an actor was his not even being nominated for an Emmy for a performance that still crackles today!)

Robert Pastorelli was another junkie Mann with whom was generous, and and then there's the on-going case of Tom Sizemore and his inexcusably inept lead appearances in last season's Robbery-Homicide Division. (Imagine my surprise last evening when we suffered through the execrable Dr. Vegas to see what "Joey Pants" (with an excellent rug for a change!) was up to… and saw a clearly cleaned up Sizemore as the third male lead.)
 

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I should have remembered that!

[IMG=left]http://www.amback.com/images/uploaded/hit_list_1.jpg[/IMG]

That was an excellent episode! They later released it on video as Calderone's Return, Part I.

A little trivia (Dean, I'm sure you know this already): when they came out with a limited videotape collection of Miami Vice episodes, they changed the song that was used on the opening scene of Calderone's Return, Part II, where Tubbs and Crockett are in the Scarab heading down to the Bahamas after Calderone. The original song was "Voices" by Russ Ballard. The video had "Can't Turn Back", by Red Rider. In my opinion it changed the whole intro to the episode.
 

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Dean:

You left out my favorite -- Kim Greist, Sonny's languid lover from the "Nobody Lives Forever" episode. (And ever so mournful as William L. Peterson's wife in "Manhunter")

Harvey
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Music rights are tricky things… Peter Bogdanovich made 1985's Mask with the intention of using a Bruce Springsteen soundtrack, but at the last moment his then manager Mike Appel, a prick-bastid of the highest order, held Universal's feet to the flames and they wound up using Bob Seger instead. (First time I'd ever heard "Roll Me Away" and it "blew me away.") Ironically, the Director's Cut DVD contains both the Seger soundtrack as well as the intended Springsteen soundtrack ("Badlands," "Thunder Road" and "Born in the USA," among others!)

The biggest jobbing of recent years came when they finally released the superior Wiseguy on DVD, and the incredible "No One Gets Out of Here Alive" finale to the first season "Sonny Steelgrave" arc in which fleeing mob boss Ray Sharkey and outed UC operative Ken Wahl are locked together in a just-shuttered seasonal theater in New Jersey while the authorities are looking all over for them. "Sonny" starts feeding the jukebox while he and the instrument of his downfall with whom he has definitely bonded over the previous nine-ten episodes, Vinnie Terranova, hash out their personal relationship and parts of the criminal's life, there are some terrific uses of The Rascals' version of "Good Lovin'" and The Moody Blues' "Nights in White Satin." The effect was riveting… and, according to Wahl before he underwent his latest personal crash 'n' burn, the releasing company didn't wanna pop for the music rights!

Gawd, I loved that series… William Russ, who I first remember as the doomed title character in that first season "Evan" episode of Miami Vice, played a terrific recurring role, "Roger Lococco," on Wiseguy, and was so strong that when Wahl went AWOL, the producers quickly wrote him in to carry the lead. Russ is such a strong screen presence that one would have to imagine that he has a horrendous personality disorder or substance abuse problem that he doesn't work more often.

Another good recurring role was that of "Sid Royce," the mob accountant played by Dennis Lipscomb, but the great strength throughout the three plus season run was OCB Supervising Field Agent "Frank McPike" (Jonathan Banks). Consistently had the best dialogue, and could liven up even the deadliest scene.

There are three episodes of this series which never aired, as well as a 1996 TV movie (with Wahl) of which I missed all but the last ten minutes!

Sorry 'bout Kim Griest, Harvey… and she had a recurring role ("Kay Gallagher") on Wiseguy as well! She's just not someone I ever easily recognized, I'm afraid.
 

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"initially aired 20 years ago this coming Tuesday (19 October). "

BS!
No way can it be that old! NO WAY! Uh Uh... Nope... No, Sir.

Samantha Fox is still hot, and The Bangles are still the most gorgeous Babe Band! 20 years.... No way.
 

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Did anyone here besides me like Firefly on Fox Friday nights about two seasons ago?

"Here's something you can't do...."
 

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George said:
The Bangles are still the most gorgeous Babe Band! 20 years.... No way
Suck it up and deal with it, George! Suzanna Hoffs is 45 years old now! (O, to be 45 again!)

Um, so how many times did you see The Allnighter?

Never saw that series, Snake… don't even remember it!
 

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Hey I'm 45! Well I will be next month. (Not having any luck convincing my wife that I should get a .45 for my 45th birthday.)

Anyway, I wonder what Hoffs looks like now. The Bangles were the most talentless, fabricated band since the Monkeys.

Well I guess they're pretty talented if you compare them to the Spice BWitches. :p
 

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DeanSpeir said:
Never saw that series (Firefly), Snake… don't even remember it!
Too bad, I think you might have liked it. Ostensibly sci-fi, it was actually a western set in space. The characters were strong, and the relationships between them were intriguing. I've called it Outlaw Josey Wales in Space, but that doesn't really do it justice. Come to think of it, there was a hint of Kelly's Heroes in it, too. It was unique. It's on DVD now, including three unaired episodes. Check it out.
 
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