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Discussion Starter #1
Well after many months of testing Toyota was finally cleared of an electronic malfunction which would
cause the accelerator pedal to stick down. It was found that mechanical and physical things could have caused
the problem.

My problem is with the first case in which the woman reported the throttle stuck down, going 100+ mph and
both feet on the brake pedal. Now during all this she said she called her husband. Wow!

I really, really don't think I would have been in any position to even be able to
call 911 in those circumstances let alone that she could have called her husband.

Also notice that within a short time of that report being published some 3000+ reports were filed about Toyota
accelerator pedals sticking down. H-m-m-m-m-m? Funny situation?

Far as I'm concerned it's all alot of BS.

Talked to a Lexus dealer where sales on certain models were suspended due to computer malfunctions
which could supposedly cause the car to flip. He informed me that one of the circumstances stated was
that if the vehicle was sliding sideways and encounterd a curb, it could flip over. Well why not?
I think a semi would flip in those circumstances.

What ever happened to the real world and common sense? Gee, do you think if you turned the ignition off
when the throttle stuck it might alleviate most of the problem?

I give up. It's as bad as the lady who spilled hot coffee in her lap and sued McD.
 

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ExSarge said:
[center:351mrnh9]What ever happened to the real world and common sense?[/center:351mrnh9]
Common sense went the way of the Dinosaurs and the Dodo Bird, ages ago. I suspected that something was gone agly when Nasa scientists were called in to help.
NASA SCIENTISTS?

Good gravy! I know that cars are a lot more complicated now than when I learned to drive in my grandmother's then eight-year old 1964 Chevrolet Malibu. They now have fancy fuel injection and are computerized up to the gills. But then, servicing these new cars isn't what it was in 1972 either.
The really ironic thing is the problem was --big surprise -- a problem that was equally likely to pop up in 1964 or 1972 -- STICKING PEDALS and FLOOR MATS!!!!! :shocked: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:
:cluebat: :cluebat:
 

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Well considering it happened to my nephew with three witnesses in the car I tend to believe them. Driving in damp weather the car was on cruise and suddey started to accelerate. Standing on the brake AND pulling the hand brake did very little. He claims the brake pedal was highland hard like the anti lock brakes were actuating. They were lucky. They were on the interstate and it was mostly empty. The car got up to the mid nineties they kept trying to turn off the car and after about six miles the car simply went dead and coasted to a stop. They had it towed and all four brake discs were blue from the heat.

There is a problem. The dealer offered him a new car in return for a non disclosure. He took one with a clutch. He also had a master ignition cutoff installed aftermarket.
 

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I can understand a reluctance to switch the ignition "off" at the steering column, as that would lock the steering and cause loss-of-control. Nevertheless, driven by curiosity, I have to ask:
• Did your nephew attempt to switch the ignition to "off" momentarily? Or at all?
• Did it occur to him to shift into neutral, and just let the engine race into self-destruction?
• Or, was it a matter of (understandable) panic and "brain fart"?
• And, finally, did he think of either of those solutions, or any other solution, after it was all over and he had calmed down?
 

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guntotin_fool said:
Well considering it happened to my nephew with three witnesses in the car I tend to believe them......
Did they have that car tested -- did anyone actually determine precisely why that car malfunctioned?

I am not saying it didn't happen ... OTOH I have a hard time believing that after all the fuss that has surrounded this --- even getting NASA engineers involved -- that there could be some electronic problem behind this in any big way.
If there is it almost invites charges of conspiracy, and I have a hard time believing NASA would become involved in that.
 

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The key was tried several times. He was understandably reluctant to lock up the wheel but his buddy watched him turn it off several times.

All commented that when he tried to pump the brakes it would surge ahead when he released brake pressure. The discs were burnt blue. Meaning when he got the car stopped they were probably glowing.

The car was towed to the dealer. Part of the service warranty. I saw it the next day as we went to claim his gear from the trunk. After that, it was gone.

The key was bent from his turning. The gearshift was moving freely, electronic interlock prevent tranny from doing anything but staying in gear under load. He is skilled enough of a driver that he was willing to lock up the rear brakes and do a j turn except he was already going to fast. He was ready to try it if he needed to avoid an accident. I saw two flat spots on the rears where he had skidded the rears for some distance.

Dealer offered him a new car in exchange for a non disclosure agreement. You don't do that unless you got a problem. He had his new car in less than a week. Again the dealer knew there was an issue or they would have fought it.

The car would not shift up or down. He was very willing to slam it into park to kill it after just a minute.

Nephew is mid twenties, been driving for a long time both off roading and highway. His friends all commented that at no time "he lost his head".

A driver of a car that stopped reported seeing brake lights as he drove past. He said that was something that struck him as odd, being blown past by a car with brake lights blazing.

The problem with the car is almost everything is switch, not a linkage.
 

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I am scared to death that it's possible to buy a car that one cannot shift out of "Drive"!
I can understand electronic gas-pedal control, steering-column anti-theft interlocks, and maybe even electric (rather than hydraulic) power steering, but to not be able to shift gears at will is about as scary as things get—not only for me, but also for the people around my out-of-control car.
 

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He has a clutch now. That is a hydraulic interface. He also had a master ignition circuit kill switch installed. It is part of an anti theft system he had installed, he can activate it via a fob or a foot switch similar to the old high beam buttons on the floor board.

I always thought the old Audi issues were false. But with control by wire and computer interfaces doing all of the functions, there are bound to be bugs, glitches etc that show up.

If the "failsafe" is some sort of relay or solenoid, well, we all know those "never"'fail.
 

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guntotin_fool said:
Dealer offered him a new car in exchange for a non disclosure agreement. You don't do that unless you got a problem. He had his new car in less than a week. Again the dealer knew there was an issue or they would have fought it.

The problem with the car is almost everything is switch, not a linkage.
I strongly suspect that when the dealers service manager notified the Toyota equivilent of a Zone Service Manager of the event, they were directed to offer the exchange. Not necessarily because there was a known problem, but because they had first hand evidence of a possible issue. If the car had the recoverable memory they do now, the service department may have realized there was a potentially serious computer issue fairly quickly and booted the problem up the decision chain.

The description seems to indicate an issue with the cruise control, no way to determine from here if it was sofware/hardware. And yeah, modern cars seem to grudgingly accomadate driver participation in the electronic interface. I'm shopping for a retirement ride and what I started out looking at got sidelined over excessive electronics and some mind-boggling design shortcomings (pull the engine to change exhaust components?).

Engine emergency stop buttons make a lot of sense. I was horrified to hear that NASCAR didn't have such things until after the Petty boy died. Back in the day, a big red kill button was commonplace in many circles.

BTW, ignition keys can be turned to the off position without locking the steering wheel on every vehicle I've ever seen.
 

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I disagree in part. After the first meeting when went to get his gear, the next contact with the dealer was not "it's gonna cost this to fix" or " we traced it to a faulty humdrum". It was " if you'd stop up in the office we would to try and settle this".

That tells me it was a corporate decision, and they knew they had issues with that power package. On the pack that he had, the throttle, transmission management, cruise, engine management are handled by one ECM.
 

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I interpreted your earlier post to mean you thought it was entirely a dealer decision. We both agree there was corporate involvement and a direction to attempt to settle the looming lawsuit. I just suspect the communication went dealer service department to corporate service to corporate management/legal to dealer management.

Despite the (old) description of Engine Control Module, there's generally only one computer in vehicles handling all the electronic chores. It would probably be better termed "Electronic Control Module". And, it would appear, some really jacked up programming.

We're dealing with a new computer management system at work. When the stuff that seems so logical to programmers interfaces with the real world, results are sometimes much less than optimum. While I respect many of those folks, I've really gotta wonder what planet some of them are raised on. When you raise issues, you get a wide eyed look and a totally innocent "What's the problem with that?"
 

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My terrms might be off but there was one tech we talked to who said "you know when your PC gets the new Windows upgrade and if you try mail and power point at the same time and it just freezes up the computer?". Then he just shrugged and went back to the car he was working on.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If it did really happen, and not the phonies trying to cash in on the problem, I would suspect
a cruise control problem. I wonder if all the cars that really had a legitimate problem had cruise control?

I had an 80 Chevy with cruise control in which I experienced a racing engine while rolling down
the highway after I accidentally knocked it out of gear. It apparently was trying to maintain the set
speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
One thing I do know about a Lexus (Toyota made?) is that the push-to-start/stop button will not stop the
engine if the car is in drive and moving. Probably many others are like that.
 
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