[Skeptic49]

Folks,
I was cruising the net and a couple of shops and realized there is no .22 adapter for the inexpensive guns, like the Ruger M-95 and the S&W Sigma. It seems to me a good idea, but it takes either a very popular pistol, with a large following, to sell .22 adapters.

Given that the only critical fit is between the magazine feed lips and the barrel or barrel ramp, could it be reasonable to build one barrel and slide, and then use a stamped steel adapter between the frame of the pistol and the .22 system?

It would only work on hammer systems, like the Sigs, Berettas, Rugers and some Taurii, but it might keep the cost down via flexibility. A magazine shell should be fairly simple,

Opinions?

Geoff
Whose cat woke him up early...sigh.

 

[William R. Moore]

The forming dies to make your magazines and adaptors cost like precious metal/jewels to develop and make.

 

[Charlie Petty]

The more common term is conversion unit and actually there are quite a few. They are not limited to hammer firing systems. There are three different makes available for many Glock models and there probably will be one for the S&W M&Ps.

Frankly I'm a little surprised that there isn't one for some Rugers but the idea of a unit aimed at "low cost" pistols makes me wonder what the market would be. Do people whose primary concern is cost of the gun really shoot enough to make it a worthwhile market niche?

Mr. Moore is right about the cost of tooling for magazines and if there was any hope of interchangeability where one magazine might fit several frames there might be an advantage but of course each gun maker wants to be sure you buy "his" magazine so they are deliberately different.

It all boils down to whether someone would be able to sell enough to make it profitable.

 

[Snake45]

As far as magazines and the tooling for stampings: Ciener's mag bodies are cast alloy of some sort, and I understand that Kimber's similar magazines are cast plastic.

There are so many .22 pistol magazines being made that in some cases, I'd think that an existing magazine could be adapted in some way--perhaps with a cast plastic or alloy housing in the manner of the ERMA EM-1 carbine.

Black Dog Machine is doing wonderful things with .22 mags for ARs (and I think others now, too). They work from CAD-CAM programming and CNC mold machining. I recall when the Black Dog guy first appeared on AR15.com asking about if there would be any market for such a product. Within a matter of just weeks (not more than a couple months at most) he had finished product ready to send out to Beta testers (of which I was one) and almost immediately incorporated our suggestions into the product that was shipped to paying customers. From idea to finished product going to stocking dealers in quantity, I don't think took him six months. Pretty amazing.

Otherwise:

Two of my dreams were fulfilled when Ciener came out with his .22 conversion for Browning P.35, and I turned up a genuine Walther P.38 unit that I could afford on eBay (shortly before they banned such things being sold there). Now all I need is a .22 conversion for my Smith 39/59 series guns. One big problem with THAT one is that there are differences in the safety systems between the three generations that would have to be taken into account. (I forget exactly what they are but I do remember that I cannot swap the slides between my 59 and my 5906 and have them work without making some kind of modifications. Been a while since I played with the guns in that detail. CRS is a horrible disease.)

 

[Skeptic49]

The more common term is conversion unit...
Frankly I'm a little surprised that there isn't one for some Rugers but the idea of a unit aimed at "low cost" pistols makes me wonder what the market would be. Do people whose primary concern is cost of the gun really shoot enough to make it a worthwhile market niche?

That would be the question. I would be wondering if a "minimal defense battery" should have a .22 in it. Right now if I had to recommend one, I would go with a Ruger M-95 and a Walther P-22 and a Mossberg 500 defense shotgun. I really can't think of a budget semi-auto rifle assuming local legality. Or a budget .30-30 lever or pump...sigh. I really think the Walther should have a hammer drop safety, but I like the exposed hammers. 9mm is selling for just under $10 for 50 rounds, before taxes of course, from WalMart and Federal, 115gr ball, made in the USA, for about twice that I can get 550 rounds of Remington Golden bullets.

The real question, can you build a conversion unit under the price of a decent .22? Taurus seems to have given up on their .22 automatic pistols, other than the pocket version. Locally I've seen very few .22 pistols under $400, except for a few models of the Walther and an occasional sale on the Beretta Neos.

I wonder why Kel-tec never put a .22 LR slide on their PF-9? It would seem a much better entry into the .22 market than a .22 Magnum..

Geoff
Who is amazed at what sells sometimes.

 

[Snake45]

The real question, can you build a conversion unit under the price of a decent .22?

Ciener has quite a few units at $200, with extra mags at $35 each. "Target" versions, with adjustable sights but debatable accuracy improvement, are $50 more.

The Cieners (and I have experience with four of them, now) aren't as accurate as we've come to expect from a dedicated "standard" .22 autopistol such as the Ruger, but they're probably at least as accurate as the centerfire parts they replace (in most cases).

 

[Joe Forte]

I bought a Tactical Solutions conversion unit a couple years ago. The accuracy is far better than I thought it would be. Any time I go to the range with a .45 the unit goes along. Very easy to change over. A lot of fun at a small price.

 

[Skeptic49]

The more common term is conversion unit...
I wonder why Kel-tec never put a .22 LR slide on their PF-9? It would seem a much better entry into the .22 market than a .22 Magnum..

Kel-tec didn't, but someone else is trying.

http://www.twistedindustries.net/products/

Any body heard of this outfit?

Geoff
Who notes the PF-9 goes for about $269 locally, plus $200 for the conversion unit and magazine and save on 9mm ammo?

 

[Kevin Gibson]

After watching a 5 axis CNC machine in action it’s very clear that these days the only real barrier to more conversion units is desire. From a programming standpoint, making a .22 slide isn’t all that difficult; the barrel even easier.

Snake’s idea for over-molding a magazine is really quite brilliant. Yeah it’s been around for a long time, but it’s good to have a reminder of a damn good idea

 

[shep854]

"I wonder why Kel-tec never put a .22 LR slide on their PF-9? It would seem a much better entry into the .22 market than a .22 Magnum.."--Skeptic49

That question has been asked a lot on KTOG (not least by me), and the conclusion was that the hassle of converting the locked 9mm slide to .22 was more hassle than it was worth, not to mention developing a brand new magazine. They had a hard enough time making the SU22 work, and even now it's still somewhat ammo-picky.

I would really like to see a .22SUB-2000 carbine, but not holding my breath.

 

[Skeptic49]

It is interesting that all the P-series Ruger 9mm automatics use the same magazine. That would simplify the magazine problem considerably.

Geoff
Who wishes he was very very wealthy.

 

[Snake45]

It is interesting that all the P-series Ruger 9mm automatics use the same magazine. That would simplify the magazine problem considerably.

Geoff
Who wishes he was very very wealthy.

I bought a couple "S&W 9mm" magazines at a gun show that will fit into, but not lock, in my 59 and 5906. The mag catch notch is in a different place (but the bodies are obviously the same).

If anyone knows what they might fit, and would want to own them, PM me--I'll make you a deal on them.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Geoff
Who wishes he was very very wealthy.

I believe all of us are convinced that we should have been born into wealth. I know I would be REALLY good at it :wink:

 

[Skeptic49]

Following up and encouraging the professional writers to inquire:

Twisted Industries is shipping in February, per their website.

http://www.twistedindustries.net/products/

If I had a few quid to spare, sigh, I might invest in a PF-9 and conversion unit for a total of $450.

Geoff
Who is trying hard not to wake the wife..shuuush

 

[Charlie Petty]

Nevr heard of them but I did just get a .22 conversion for the Glock 17 or 22 from Tactical Solutions.

Haven't had it long, but so far it has run with everything I've tried with 0 stoppages.