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[IMG=center]http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/images/nracon13.jpg[/IMG]
…but only if he's of a mind to.
…but only if he's of a mind to.
We'll let CeePee talk about these…
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Yeah... I probably could bore everyone to tears about those.
The T-3 was the result of a 1948 contract to develop a new 9mm service pistol. In all there were 3 or 4 variaitons that had both single and double column magazines. The govt. kept changing the specifications and the last batch has to use a Browning HP magazine.
All you can see in the picture are the first versions which were then modified several times. The fact that there were that many in one display is really neat.
Colt and S&W also participated in the contract. Colt's offering was called the T-4 and S&W's was the X-100. The S&W went on to become the Model 39. Nobody knows how many Colts were made, but there is at least one at the Springfield Armory Museum.
The killer was that the contact required it to be a straight blowback design and everyone I have spoken to who shot the High Standard said it was miserable. S&W didn't even try and the X-100 is a locked breech. The Army would not allow HS to modify the thing with chamber grooves and the whole thing ended up going down the tubes.
There was even some special ammo made for the HS that used a sintered iron bullet with two small driving bands which did help, but not much.
I was not able to find very much history at the factory- only one version of the contract but there were supposedly a number of reports both by HS and Springfield. When the Army started looking at the Beretta I thought they would surely have researched the old work and might be able to give me some more information. I spoke to the engineer in charge of the project at Picatinny Aresenal and he said. "The T-WHAT?" They had never even heard of it.
There's a bunch of bucks in that photo
The T-3 was the result of a 1948 contract to develop a new 9mm service pistol. In all there were 3 or 4 variaitons that had both single and double column magazines. The govt. kept changing the specifications and the last batch has to use a Browning HP magazine.
All you can see in the picture are the first versions which were then modified several times. The fact that there were that many in one display is really neat.
Colt and S&W also participated in the contract. Colt's offering was called the T-4 and S&W's was the X-100. The S&W went on to become the Model 39. Nobody knows how many Colts were made, but there is at least one at the Springfield Armory Museum.
The killer was that the contact required it to be a straight blowback design and everyone I have spoken to who shot the High Standard said it was miserable. S&W didn't even try and the X-100 is a locked breech. The Army would not allow HS to modify the thing with chamber grooves and the whole thing ended up going down the tubes.
There was even some special ammo made for the HS that used a sintered iron bullet with two small driving bands which did help, but not much.
I was not able to find very much history at the factory- only one version of the contract but there were supposedly a number of reports both by HS and Springfield. When the Army started looking at the Beretta I thought they would surely have researched the old work and might be able to give me some more information. I spoke to the engineer in charge of the project at Picatinny Aresenal and he said. "The T-WHAT?" They had never even heard of it.
There's a bunch of bucks in that photo
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At that stage in the game (1948) a decade plus since the High Power had proven itself even, why would they want a 9mm in straight blowback?
Or is this one of those why ask why's?
With that name (T-3) and those lines, it looks and sounds like a com-bloc gun.
Ed
Or is this one of those why ask why's?
With that name (T-3) and those lines, it looks and sounds like a com-bloc gun.
Ed
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Ours is not to reason why...
I'm sure the T-3 was a government assigned name and "why" was not written into the contract. I talked at length with the HS engineers on the project and they didn't know either.
But the gun was quite innovative with some good manufacturing methods. You can see the hinged trigger guard which was a requirement for cold weather use and later versions had a plunger that was depressed when the trigger guard was folded up that served to dramatically increase the trigger pull as a safety feature for the open trigger.
I'm sure the T-3 was a government assigned name and "why" was not written into the contract. I talked at length with the HS engineers on the project and they didn't know either.
But the gun was quite innovative with some good manufacturing methods. You can see the hinged trigger guard which was a requirement for cold weather use and later versions had a plunger that was depressed when the trigger guard was folded up that served to dramatically increase the trigger pull as a safety feature for the open trigger.
That is an HS Model 10 bullpup shotgun. They had both the 10-A (with integral flashlight) and 10-B models on display. You can take a better look here:
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH26-E.HTM
http://www.thesupplybunker.net/weapons/us_shotguns.htm
As I recall, the intention was to have a more compact shotgun for police to fit in their increasingly cramped and crowded cruisers.
The exhibitor also had beautiful specimens of what he described as the only centerfire production HS pistol (in .380 ACP) and prototype pistols in .45 ACP, 9x19mm, and other centerfire calibers. An excellent collection!
http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/SH26-E.HTM
http://www.thesupplybunker.net/weapons/us_shotguns.htm
As I recall, the intention was to have a more compact shotgun for police to fit in their increasingly cramped and crowded cruisers.
The exhibitor also had beautiful specimens of what he described as the only centerfire production HS pistol (in .380 ACP) and prototype pistols in .45 ACP, 9x19mm, and other centerfire calibers. An excellent collection!
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The Model 10 shotguns were pretty cool, but didn't last long in the catalog. I don't know how many ewre made, but the number isn't large.
"The exhibitor also had beautiful specimens of what he described as the only centerfire production HS pistol (in .380 ACP)"
That was called the G-380 and would be a real challenger for greatest dog of all time honors. It came about as a spinoff from the .38 Special target pistol they tried called the P-38 and used the same frame. It was a blowback operated .380 and even as big as it was was a real dog to shoot... hammer bite and more recoil than you'd imagine.
Only 5000 were made in the 50s so everyone says they are rare, which is true, but every bloody one is still around in mint condition.
"The exhibitor also had beautiful specimens of what he described as the only centerfire production HS pistol (in .380 ACP)"
That was called the G-380 and would be a real challenger for greatest dog of all time honors. It came about as a spinoff from the .38 Special target pistol they tried called the P-38 and used the same frame. It was a blowback operated .380 and even as big as it was was a real dog to shoot... hammer bite and more recoil than you'd imagine.
Only 5000 were made in the 50s so everyone says they are rare, which is true, but every bloody one is still around in mint condition.
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Thanks Rob! Certainly an interesting looking design and right about the time of the first AR's too (the handle). Actually it looks a lot like some of the supposed "new" stuff coming out now. I guess everything old is new again! I visit the "Modern Guns" site a lot. The English isn't the greatest but the pics and the info are usualy pretty good.
Ed
Ed
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Ya gotta know your stuff to be able to ID it, but one of the Models 10B was used in the terrific firefight finale of one of the best films of the past quarter century, Michael Mann's 1981 classic Thief which he kinda remade into Heat 15 years later.CeePee said:
Special TGZ acknowledgment to the Forum Member who can name the now well-known character actor who wielded it.
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Well, now we have a greater insight into the origins of the "Special Ed" cognomen… "Hi Power," indeed!
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So what did he use? I've always been a James Caan fan and I saw Thief once on tv about the same time I saw the one with Robert Duval as his partner who shot him in the elbow and knee (The kIller Elite, I believe?) And for some reason I've always had a picture in my head of James Caan with an HP....
Oh well, it's Hell gettin old!
Ed
Oh well, it's Hell gettin old!
Ed
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Yep, even some of the character names remain the same.SpecialEd said:
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Errata…
Tsk, tsk, Dan'l… Thief was in 1981. L.A. Takedown was a failed pilot for a late '80s TV series, which evolved into 1995's Heat… and yes, some of the characters retained the same names, most notably "Michael Cerrito," "Chris Sheherlis," "Waingro" and "Vincent Hanna," but that actually was tweaked into the failed CBS series of two season's ago, Robbery Homicide Division. Mann gets a lot of mileage from his properties.
Tsk, tsk, Dan'l… Thief was in 1981. L.A. Takedown was a failed pilot for a late '80s TV series, which evolved into 1995's Heat… and yes, some of the characters retained the same names, most notably "Michael Cerrito," "Chris Sheherlis," "Waingro" and "Vincent Hanna," but that actually was tweaked into the failed CBS series of two season's ago, Robbery Homicide Division. Mann gets a lot of mileage from his properties.
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I know…
…I know… I actually live to correct Dan'l once every two or three years since he usually corrects me… usually on my own stuff… several times a year!
…I know… I actually live to correct Dan'l once every two or three years since he usually corrects me… usually on my own stuff… several times a year!
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I tried to find Thief at the local blockbuster and it wasn't even listed in their files anymore (surprise) They did have Heat on VHS though. (Bleive it or not, I have never seen Heat.) So I just went to AMAZON and found them both on VHS for a few bucks and they should be in by the end of the week. Give me something to do this weekend. Now if I could just get Bane's show on tape....
Ed
Ed
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Re: errata redux
Yep! That's what I meant. Whenever I see the name L.A. Takedown, I think Heat. The first time I saw Heat, I quickly remembered that I had seen a similiar armored car heist once before.SpecialEd said:
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